So we have so-called "significant age difference". The cliché today goes that persons ages in a relationship is just numbers and does not matter. In principle I do agree. When Jinlin initially contacted me in the net we were both unsure whether the other one would mind about the age difference. In our first exchanged messages the topic was quickly discussed. Jinlin wrote in clumsily but cutely translated English:
I'm pleased do meet you. I am a little. Would you mind? Although I am young, psychological maturity.(Chinese 小 , Xiǎo, has both meaning of little and young and translation programs frequently pick blindly the first meaning). No, I did not mind, although I must say was genuinely surprised of being contacted by so young woman. Later I expressed my own worry:
I am 38 years. I hope you don't think I am too old :-(
Not. I love you! This is the most important. I 18 you feel me? I really want to be with you.
Cultural acceptance
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| Jinlin in Xinxian Zoo |
Wikipedia has article on age disparity in relationships with summary:
Age disparity in sexual relationships refers to sexual relations between people with a significant difference in age. Whether these relationships are accepted and the question of what counts as a significant difference in age has varied over time and varies over cultures, different legal systems, and different ethical systems. It often depends on differing attitudes towards perceived social and economic differences between age groups and how consent is viewed, and sometimes whether or not the relationship is part of a spiritual or legal marriage.In the 1800's and first part of 1900's it was very common in Finland and China alike for men to first develop their studies and career quite far before marrying. Women did not have corresponding social requirement and the average age difference for couples was correspondingly high. For example my grandfathers grandfather, Carl Gottfrid Brotherus (born in 1836), married Milette Malm (born 1857) when he already had PhD and was settled on a career as teacher and they went on to have seven children together.
Around the mid 1900's acceptance of wide age difference was in decline, partly because the rising trends of gender equality and feminism were in some interpretations identifying age difference as sign of a weak and/or un-emancipated woman. This was exemplified by the appearance in the 1950's of the half-your-age-plus-seven-rule that considered dating of person younger than your age plus seven as socially unacceptable. The encouragement for symmetrical behaviour, image and career development for the genders was especially strong in socialism that emphasized collective over individual and standard solutions over custom choice.
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| President Niinistö and Jenni Haukio |
Perhaps the age of emancipation has matured to a degree that in the spirit of liberalism individual personal choice is trusted and respected in most cases. Still the battle between liberal acceptance and conservative fears and disapproval is far from over as was seen from reactions to Henna Hakko sexually liberal blog writing on 2012 and the subsequent negative reactions that Tommi Paalanen well describes. Many derogatory words still exist for large age difference and/or inter-cultural relationships (see my earlier "Sugar-daddies, Trophy wives and whores") but their use is rather limited. I see a correlation here between acceptance of homosexual relationships: although many derogatory terms remain for homosexuals, the idea of old homosexual men being "predators" of young men and "luring" them to homosexual behavior has been fading in the mainstream culture and replaced by increasing liberal acceptance.
I do not think that the apparent present trend for re-emerging frequency and acceptance of larger age gap represents step backward to 1800's. Women remain emancipated and indeed this is best demonstrated by the fact that of the couples with large age gap many are today such where the man is younger than the man. My ex-wife and the mother of my boys is 8 years older than me and our marriage did not fail to the age difference. While it is more common for the man to be the older partner and some studies suggest biological and psychological reasons for this, the increasing number of opposite pairs nicely demonstrate the breath of individual differences in our increasingly liberal age.
Practical joys and sorrows
Internet search for "suitable age difference in relationship" brings up several discussions on the topic, but whereas lots of opinions are given in terms of absolute or relative numbers of years, the arguments given for the opinions are either not given at all or seem rather light. One of the common arguments given is that some people will laugh at you or "look at you weirdly" if you have much older/younger partner. Well, in some cases this might be true but it is also circular reasoning: age gap is not acceptable because people will not look at you weirdly and people will look at you weirdly because they do not find the age gap acceptable.
So finding from internet some true and valid issues that couples with age gap are faced with can be difficult. I list in the following some practical matters than some people have been describing as potential issues and my comments as they apply to our case.
"You might have difficult to have conversation about many things because you belong to a different generation". In the case on Jinlin and me, the cultural gap and language gap definitely create larger separations to our thoughts and ways of thinking than our age gap, so if different in patterns of thought or frame of mind would make conversation difficult, we would have no conversation at all. But we have and have had a lot, to great extent because of curiosity and willingness to learn about each others worlds. But more importantly, why could not people of different generations have meaningful conversations? In fact the possibly different experiences and opinions of "generations" can be very fruitful for conversations. I used to have great conversations about life, universe and everything with my dear grand-father.
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| Karaoke last night |
"You might be too different in your levels of maturity, responsibility and courage in life." Here I feel that Jinlin has been living true to her early statement of "Although I am young, psychological maturity". The Confucian principles of unselfishness, respect for others, courage and determination have been shining in her words and actions. Perhaps it is her upbringing, but she has also had hardships and tears in her life like myself. On the other hand, I have always wanted and felt natural to cherish the "inner child" in me who "does not want to grow old" - my past summers Prometheus-campers gave me nickname "Peter Pan" which I was very delighted of. I want and am able to laugh, act silly and enjoy the company of wide variety of people from old to young.
"You might be at too different stages of your careers." I have stable and well-developed career in software development and Jinlin is a student. It has unfortunately proved difficult to find ways to bring us live together sooner rather than later. But here again I feel it has been more due to language-related issues than age or career level. An older Chinese woman might have advanced more on her career, but that might mean also more specialization and that might make finding suitable job from Finland more difficult, not less. Jinlin still has had the flexibility of fine-tuning her studies and career-choices in ways that are more suitable for moving to Finland.
"You might have too different thoughts about family / children." I have two boys from my past marriage. Jinlin loves them and they have often asked me when can Jinlin come to Finland to meet them. I used to say to my friends about the fact that I have kids that it makes me more flexible in my future relationships: I don't any more have need to necessarily have more children but I may have them if my spouse wants. So this made me "compatible" both with women that have / don't have / want / don't want children.
So, the circle closes and about age differences I can conclude like my friend with long-term Chinese wife concluded about cultural differences: "I believe that culture is a factor, but it is the individuals in the end that are crucial. It is question about mutual will to understand each other and each others circumstances." To that I only need to add: "And love"
The only significant factor is the following: is this person decent or is she poison ivy. In the first case, she will attempt to harmonise with your environment and children and will make your partnership a success. In the second case, she will destroy your relationships with others and take over your life. So age difference is the wrong pivotal point. It is intentions and basic decency, love and care and social intelligence. Your example of Helmut Kohl regarding age difference is entirely misleading. Very unique circumstances: 53 years with first wife, who has supported him throughout in exceptional fashion, and to whom he owed an enormous amount and at the end committed suicide due to pressures brought on by his political mistakes (Spendenaffaere). He was accused of being the cause of her death. The (dominatrix) second wife hijacks his life (once all powerful, now that of a wheel-chair bound man), machinates breaking off with everyone significant from his past (including family and closest associates of decades), and tries to wipe out the past. Does is matter how many years separate them - insignificant in terms of intentions and outcome. The real question is what kind of human being is this person. As may be seen in this sad but prominent example, the years are secondary and should be less of a focus. Every one of these prominent men/women you cite is probably a different case. It is not in the years, it is in the human qualities that lies the crux of the matter. Good luck.
ReplyDeleteThank you! Indeed it is other qualities than age that matter, which makes it sociologically interesting that age can still with some people evoke negative attention. I was not aware of the special circumstances you describe about Helmut Kohl, thank you for the information. The attempts to "wipe out past" sounds indeed heinous compared to what I have heard of the cases of the Finnish politicians I mentioned (although there might of course always be behind the scenes personal battles that I am not aware).
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